[UPDATED 11/16]
This exchange took place in the reader responses section underneath a post by Sami Jamil Jadallah titled "Major Nidal Hasan and Rabbi/Senator Joseph Lieberman", featured on Palestine Think Tank. (Read Jadallah's excellent article as well, for both edification and background.)
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In response to Aaron Aaron's claims that the Vietnam war was fought by America for soley imperial and racist purposes:
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Chris Moore wrote:
Aaron Aarons,
Why do you ignore the context of the agenda of totalitarian communist mass murder and genocide against which the Vietnam war was fought? To be sure, in retrospect, America went to far, made some incredibly stupid decisions, and indeed, should never have entered that particular battle field. The liberal and quasi socialist LBJ was nothing but a dumb hick with pretensions of attaining left-liberal utopia by means of epic cynicism. But the wrongs that America committed do fall under the category of “road to hell paved with do-gooder intentions.”
In contrast, the road to the war against Islam was not paved with good intentions, but rather venal intentions, greedy intentions, and Zionist expansionist intentions. But the Zionist ideology really isn’t that far off the mark from your own; indeed, don’t you Leftists believe that Big Religion is backward, intolerant of Jews and homosexuals, superstitious, and primitive? Haven’t most Zionists always been Jewish socialists? Haven’t they always professed to be bringing enlightenment and modernity to the Levant?
Don’t most Jewish socialists regard Islam the same way they regard Christianity — as a noxious menace — and view "secular" Big Government as a method of Christian and Islamic pest control?
Perhaps your only problem with Israel is the religious Jews. Perhaps Jewish-Lefty bigots should consider the possibility that they have a problem, too. Or perhaps their egos are too big to consider that possibility, being raised to believe they're "the chosen" and all — or do Jewish-Lefty parents use other semantics to get the same message through?
If Jewish bigots would just check their outsized egos at the door, and try to gain some self-awareness of their control-freak tendencies, and could realize that their pseudo-secular power-grabbing ploys have now been identified as the scams they are and give up the ghost, half their problems would disappear, almost instantly.
You all need to adjust to the new, post-Communist reality. Christianity and Islam aint going away any time soon, and certainly not before Judaism. Zionists and Jewish leftists should put an end to that particular fantasy right now.
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Aaron Aarons wrote:
To Chris Moore:
Imperialist-capitalist mass murder has easily killed over a billion people, mostly through malnutrition and outright starvation, since the end of World War II. So the fact that Stalinists killed a few tens of millions, including many thousands of my comrades, is important only in that they killed people who could have done a much better job than they did of fighting capitalism and imperialism. One example of that is the killing of Vietnamese Trotskyists by the Vietnamese Stalinists
I defend the right of Moslems, Christians, Jews, Hindus, and others to their religious beliefs and, up to a point, their practices. In fact, I defend them more consistently than most serious believers in any of those religions defend that right for anybody whose religious beliefs differ from theirs, even in small ways.
Most of the early Zionists did call themselves 'socialists', just as the German Nazis did, but in both cases it was a means to harness the socialist idealism of workers and others to a nationalist program where the capitalists were in charge behind the scenes.
BTW, we aren't in a post-communist world. We're either in a pre-communist world, or a global-genocide-by-capital world. It's a choice that will be decided in the next couple of decades, at most
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Chris Moore wrote:
Well, AA, I'm glad to hear your Communist revolution of one will allow the peons their religion, even if its only "up to a point." That's more than your hero Trotsky, his comrade Stalin and their Jewish Bolshevik henchmen allowed in the Soviet Union. Unfortunately, it still sounds like something that would spring from the mouth of Thomas Friedman or one of the Neocons when holding forth on what should or shouldn't be tolerated out of the Islamic world.
Deep down, you delusional Jewish ideologues really do believe yourselves to be a gift to the gentile peons from the cosmos, don’t you?
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Jeff Blanfort wrote:
Chris, why don't you say something that is relative to this thread?
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Chris Moore wrote:
Would you stay on topic of an ethnic German neo-Nazi was jabbering forth with warmed over fascist rhetoric? Yet some can't understand why ethnic Jewish neo-Bolshevism and Trotskyism grates?
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Aaron Aarons wrote:
Sorry, Chris Moore, but I think most of us reject Nazi and fascist rhetoric regardless of the ethnicity of the person spouting it, whether they be Hitler-loving German or Zionist Jews. The only Germans I've had to break with politically in my lifetime are those supporting Israel. I did also, when I was in Germany in the early 1990's, join with Kurds and German leftists in demonstrations against the classical-style Nazis, and for the freedom of Kurdish revolutionaries held by the German state.
Unlike you, I don't care about the ethnicity or 'race' of people I support or oppose, but I don't expect you to understand that.
C.M.: "Yet some can't understand why ethnic Jewish neo-Bolshevism and Trotskyism grates?"
While I'm glad to do anything that grates on you, C.M., I'll point out for those who care that the three countries where Trotskyism developed a mass following were Vietnam, Ceylon, and Bolivia — none of them known for the presence of large numbers of Jews.
Also, when the Trotskyist movement in the U.S., which was the largest at the time outside of Vietnam, split over the question of continued defense of the Soviet Union after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, it was mainly the Jewish sections, under the leadership of Max Schachtman, that left the party and moved towards a 'third-camp' anti-USSR position, which was also the position of the Palestine-born Jewish Trotskyist leader in Britain, Ygael Gluckstein, a.k.a. Tony Cliff. It was gentiles like James P. Cannon and Farrell Dobbs who led the Soviet-defensist faction that supported Trotsky.
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Chris Moore wrote:
AA: "Unlike you, I don't care about the ethnicity or 'race' of people I support or oppose, but I don't expect you to understand that."
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Unlike you, I don't deny that ethnicity plays a role in culture formulation, and culture plays a role in political formulation. Post-Torah, Jewish-supremacist Talmudic culture undoubtedly played a role in the formulation of Bolshevism (see Moses Hess), Zionism, Neoconservatism and Neoliberalism.
I can't say whether this is the case with AA or not, but often out of the imperative of masking his hidden Jewish-supremacist agenda, the (counterfeit) Jewish Leftist will deny and suppress this reality of God-made ethnic and cultural differences (that can theoretically add up to a highly functional whole the same way God-made variegation works in the natural environment) by denying that there is a cosmic God, and turning the totalitarian State (and its Jewish functionaries) into the New God as a means of supplanting the genuine God.
I can see the appeal of this to pseudo-secular Jewish Neocons, Neoliberals, and Zionists, too, given that so many of them are raised to believe that they were once God's medium and stand-in. Milton wrote eloquently on the phenomenon of how this heady role can inspire delusions of grandeur and ultimate group rebellion against God, in Paradise
Lost.
BTW, I note that Christian Zionists, money worshipping Capitalists, and other contemporary connoisseurs of atheism-materialism (masked and unmasked) are in open rebellion against God, as well. Little wonder these all often rally around the Jewish Zionists. Again, see Milton's chief rebel angel and his henchmen.
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Aaron Aarons wrote:
Chris Moore on November 13th, 2009 at 15:09:
[Quoting] AA: "Unlike you, I don't care about the ethnicity or 'race' of people I support or oppose, but I don't expect you to understand that."
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[C.M.] Unlike you, I don't deny that ethnicity plays a role in culture formulation, and culture plays a role in political formulation.
No, I don't deny that ethnicity plays a role in culture formulation, and culture plays a role in political formulation, either. But I don't support or oppose people on the basis of what ethnicity helped shape them, but on the basis of where they are now, regardless of what ethnicity or other factors in their formation led them there. I think most Palestinians would agree with me that an ethnic Jew like Barbara Lubin or Joel Kovel (or even Aaron Aarons!) is more on the side of the Palestinian people against their Jewish oppressors than is Mahmoud Abbas, Muhammed Dahlan or Hosmi Mubarak. (But that might be a case of damning us with very faint praise, indeed!)
Aside from this point, C.M., there's no way to have a rational exchange with you when you invoke this "God" character that nobody can know, and that those who claim to know interpret in many different, often contradictory, ways.
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Chris Moore wrote:
AA: "I don't support or oppose people on the basis of what ethnicity helped shape them, but on the basis of where they are now"
Fair enough. And neither do I. But you have revealed yourself as currently being of the Judeofascist Left. Here is a relevant descriptor of this orientation from my other web site, Judeofascism.com:
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What about Zionist and non-Zionist irreligious Jews? Again, irreligious Jewish supporters of the Jewish supremacist program of Palestinian subjugation and disenfranchisement that is inherent to contemporary Zionism would have to fall into the Judeofacist camp by definition. But how about self-identifying left-wing Jews, for instance, who are non-Zionist? Is it possible for them to be Judeofacists even if they profess to be irreligious and opposed to Zionism?
I maintain that it is possible when their political orientation reflects clear latent beliefs in Jewish exceptionalism, and a desire and program to utilize an authoritarian State to impose de facto Jewish exceptionalism upon non-Jews by means, in part, of ethnic racketeering that results in high concentrations of Jewish authorities administering a powerful central government.
Have we encountered such a people before? Indeed we have — in the revolutionary Jewish Bolsheviks, who played a hugely disproportionate role in the Russian coup that led to Communism and later in the Communist hierarchy of the early Soviet Union, as well as the implementation of the systematic Soviet state murder of millions of Christians, peasants, and anti-Communist dissidents…Cont'd
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So, Aaron, your platitudes about being anti-Zionist and irreligious ring hollow, given the fact that you embrace an authoritarian brand of politics (Socialism/Bolshevism) that has, like Zionism, historically been utilized to assert organized Jewish primacy.
Socialist Moses Hess, whom I cited above, and who was highly influential upon the works of Marx and Engels, also professed to be a post-racial and post-religious Jew, as you do, but quickly reverted to Zionism and anti-German racism as a result of that Gentile people’s resistance to Jewish supremacism and ethnic racketeering, which he correctly sensed would spell trouble for the "socialist" Jewish-supremacist project (which later manifested in Soviet Bolshevism) in the future. Indeed, WWII was fought, in part, as a result of German resistance to Stalinist/Jewish Bolshevik mass murder and totalitarian expansionism.
Authoritarian politics embraced by any Statist Jew, from left-wing (ie Bolshevism) to right-wing (ie Zionism), are an indicator that that Jew in fact has not left his supremacist orientation, authoritarian pretensions, and Jewish delusions of grandeur behind, and remains dangerously murderous and totalitarian, and likely to re-embrace Jewish supremacy at any opportune time, or when he deems it safe to take off the “secular” mask.
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Aaron Aarons wrote:
Re Chris Moore #55
Mr. Moore should perhaps be congratulated for getting through a post of a couple of hundred words without the word "God" being one of those words. But he reveals another, rather ugly, side of his ideology when he writes:
> Indeed, WWII was fought, in part, as a result of German resistance to Stalinist/Jewish Bolshevik mass murder and totalitarian expansionism.
So now we have an open Nazi apologist! Apparently, Germany's 'drang nach osten' had nothing to do with the desire for "lebensraum" and Slavic labor, nor the fact that German imperialism had been locked out of most of the rest of the world by Western European colonialism and U.S. neo-colonialism. Really!
I know, for me to make such arguments proves that I'm a materialistic Jew who's in rebellion against "God". But if your "God" is omnipotent, he/she/it must want me to be "in rebellion against" him/her/it, so I must
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Chris Moore wrote:
Re Aaron Aarons, #60,
There would have been no Nazi Germany but for Stalinist,/Jewish Bolshevik State organized and engineered Communist mass murder that preceded it, set precedents, and inspired the Nazi anti-thesis.
Nazi Germany and the Holocaust…yet another tragic and sadistic phenomenon that can be laid at the feet of Judeofascists and their sick, demented, and Godless collaborators.
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Jeff Blankfort wrote:
It's time to order some new sand for this sandbox. And another box of diapers.
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Chris Moore wrote:
Peoples the world over have been killing, conquering and colonizing one another since man first crawled from the swamps and organized himself into a tribes. And there have always been different types of colonization depending the culture and character of those doing the colonizing.
For example, native Americans fought vicious tribal wars of conquest and slavery for eons before the first Europeans set foot on the continent. Today, they have citizenship, and all the rights and privileges bestowed upon non-native Americans, plus the (heirloom, racially handed down) treaty privileges that grant them partial sovereignty, and which they have utilized to make tens of billions from casinos and other reservation operations that non-natives are not allowed to compete with. Much of their profit is tax-free.
Now contrast this with Jewish colonization in modern time alone: the Jewish Bolsheviks murdered, terrorized, genocided and plundered millions in the Soviet Union in the name of "social justice." The Jewish Zionists have been on a similar tribal rampage (under cover of "self-determination") in the Levant, only on a smaller scale, for decades. And the Israel lobby (organized Jewish colony) has utilized its power to force the American taxpayer to write Israel a blank check; strong-arm the U.S. government to give Israel a "pass" on all its aggression and murder, and veto UN resolutions against it…on and on — all of which contributed to 9/11.
The Israel lobby (organized Jewish colony) initiated, undertook and fulfilled a campaign to lie America into the Iraq war (see ‘The Israel Lobby’ by Walt and Mearsheimer, Clean Break, and Project for a New American Century) and has aggressively supported and pushed other warmongering aggression in the Mideast before and since. To be certain, it had plenty of help from craven, war profiteering, money-worshipping Gentiles in these projects. But it's interesting how much more craven, debased and unabashedly venal these have become since the Jewish colony "Judaized" America. I mean, America always had its "wonderful little wars," but the Iraq war took the phenomenon to a whole new, shamelessly corrupt and nakedly murderous level.
So in modern times alone, from Russia to the Middle East to America, the organized Jewish colonies have proven not only aggressive and murderous, but also seem to take a special sadistic pride and glee in the subversiveness and insidiousness of their treachery, taking it all to the level of a series of well-planned homicides — which makes their actions premeditated, as opposed to evolutionary.
No wonder Jewish Leftists like Chomsky and his acolytes, and Jewish Zionists, always seek to put the Gentile on the defensive: it’s a means of hiding and intimidating inquiry into Jewish colonizing, and historical and contemporary Judeofascist aggression and murder. Of course, point any of this out, and immediately rings out the tribal hue and cry of "anti-Semitism" — which itself, of course, is just another cynical means of camouflaging their premeditated crimes and criminal intentions.
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